Michigan investigator says he doesn't know what Trump lawyer told GOP electors – Detroit News
Lansing — An investigator for the Attorney General’s office acknowledged in court Wednesday he hasn’t determined what a lawyer for Donald Trump’s campaign told 16 Michigan Republicans immediately before they signed a document falsely claiming Trump won the state’s 2020 election.
The statement from Howard Shock, a special agent investigator for Attorney General Dana Nessel’s office, came as an Ingham County judge considers whether the GOP electors had an intent to defraud the public or whether they were simply acting upon the guidance of counsel.
Michael Bullotta, a lawyer representing one of the Republican electors, Rose Rook, focused during a preliminary examination Wednesday on what the group was told in a closed-door meeting inside Michigan GOP headquarters on Dec. 14, 2020, when they signed a document that was sent to the U.S. Senate.
Present in the room, at some point that day, was Shawn Flynn, a lawyer working with the Trump campaign, according to evidence presented in court.
“You don’t know what Shawn Flynn said to these folks about why they might have to sign the document?” Bullotta asked Shock.
“Correct,” Shock responded.
Moments later, Bullotta questioned how Shock was able to state in an affidavit that the GOP electors knew that there wasn’t a legal reason for the certificate.
“You don’t know what they were told,” Bullotta said.
“I feel that I can based on the totality of the investigation and the information that I obtained during the investigation,” Shock responded.
Shock spent much of Wednesday fielding questions from defense attorneys during the second day of preliminary examinations for six of the GOP electors in Ingham County District Court.
Through the exams, Ingham County Judge Kristen Simmons eventually will decide whether Nessel’s office has presented enough evidence to show there’s probable cause to believe crimes were committed by the Republican electors and they should stand trial.
In July, Nessel’s office charged each of the 16 false electors with eight felonies, including forgery, which carries a maximum penalty of up to 14 years behind bars. To be successful, Nessel’s team must prove the false electors had an “intent to injure or defraud another person,” according to Michigan law.
The preliminary exams for six of the electors concluded in April. Now, six more are undergoing their exams.
Three others will have exams at a later date. And one, James Renner of Lansing, has reached a cooperation deal with Nessel’s office.
Wednesday’s hearing was among the most tense yet as defense lawyers questioned whether the Attorney General’s office had compiled enough evidence to bring the forgery charges.
Shock noted the electors’ signatures appeared on a false document that Trump supporters mailed to the Senate in an attempt to overturn Democrat Joe Biden’s victory when Congress met on Jan. 6, 2021, and unsuccessfully tried to deliver the document to the Michigan Capitol on Dec. 14, 2020.
The certificate claimed the Republicans were Michigan’s “duly elected and qualified” electors, but Biden had scored Michigan’s 16 electoral votes and his win had been certified by the Board of State Canvassers on Nov. 23, 2020.
However, David Gilbert, a lawyer for elector Kenneth Thompson of Orleans, questioned whether Shock had been able to prove the false certificate was in the envelope that Trump allies carried to the Michigan Capitol on Dec. 14, 2020.
Michigan State Police troopers refused to accept the envelope as the Democratic electors met inside the Michigan Capitol.
“It could have been empty?” Gilbert asked of the envelope.
“It could have been,” Shock replied.
At another point, Bullotta questioned whether Shock had evidence that his client, Rook, had viewed the false certificate before signing her name to a signature page that accompanied the document.
“I don’t recall what her statements were in the proffer,” Shock said referring to a past interview with Rook.
Bullotta then told the judge, “Tell him to answer questions.”
Simmons responded, “He doesn’t know. I can’t make him know.”
cmauger@detroitnews.com