Opinion | Donald Trump, Joe Biden and the 2024 Election: 12 Women Discuss – The New York Times
In a previous Times Opinion focus group, we spoke with nine men who voted for Joe Biden in 2020 to explore what they thought of him now. Some praised his decency or credited him with infrastructure projects in their communities. But all of them said they wished someone other than Mr. Biden would be the Democratic presidential nominee this year. (Ditto for a Republican other than Donald Trump.) There was broad respect for Mr. Biden but not a lot of enthusiasm.
This focus group is a companion to that Biden group: We spoke with 12 women who voted for Mr. Trump in 2020 to discuss how they saw him now. (We often zero in on specific demographic groups to discuss politics.)
There was clearly enthusiasm for Mr. Trump’s candidacy, but many of the voters seemed motivated more by anti-Biden attitudes than pro-Trump ones. When we asked them to give a word describing Mr. Trump, fewer than half the words were positive. But disdain for Mr. Trump’s personality was exceeded by frustration with Mr. Biden on policy and competence. There was a strong desire to change leaders in 2024 and a certainty that inflation, interest rates and the economy would be more likely to improve under Mr. Trump than under Mr. Biden.
Several voters expressed interest in Robert F. Kennedy Jr., and some were concerned about Mr. Trump’s ongoing trial and other legal issues. But in the end, the women had powerful memories of the economy being better under Mr. Trump, and they did not see him as so different from politicians who try to hide their scandals or want subordinates to obey their orders.
Melissa, a 43-year-old independent from Arizona who is Latina and works in human resources, reflected the views of a lot of women in the group with this comment about Mr. Trump: “I would probably vote for him again because I do believe he’s a strong leader, a businessman. So he knows how to do what is right for our economy or to turn us in a better direction. He’s very inappropriate in his comments. But I didn’t vote for him to teach my child how to speak or how to be appropriate.”
If you had to describe in one word what is going wrong in America these days, what is on the wrong track, what would you say?
Rights.
Everything.
Values.
Leadership.
Crime.
Pride.
Everything.
Patriotism.
Priorities.
Economy.
Economy.
Freedom.
Uche, tell me a little why you picked “values.”
Our leadership really only values money and what is going to make the most money for people who already have money.
What would you like to see them value?
Humans, safety, rights. I really liked the word “rights.”
Teri, you said “rights.” Tell me a little bit about that.
There’s been a lot going on as far as rights for women and abortion. I don’t have a strong feeling one way or another, but I think that they should be able to choose what happens to their bodies.
Kathleen, you said “priorities.”
Leaders are like, “Oh, I’m going to do X, Y, Z for you.” And then they don’t do X, Y, Z for you. That’s a long list for our current president. The first one is removing student loans. That’s a major one for me. If you’re going to say it, then do it. I do make a livable wage, but that can soon change because of the inflation.
There’s a lot of things going sideways and downhill with the economy. If we think back four to five years, before Covid, things were not this bad. I’ve been hearing over a year how interest rates are going to get lower, and it never happens. I was taking a look at my bank account and how expenses in groceries — I have three kids — went from $200 to $400. Explain to me how a 12 count of eggs can be $2 and then the next month it’s $6. Why? What’s going on? It’s a little bit sad.
I’m going to read five policy issues, and I’d like to know which one is the most important to you.
On the economy, what happens when people can’t afford things? I think there’s an indication of higher crime, higher homelessness. Our economy wasn’t like this however many years ago. It wasn’t tanked like this. The exorbitant amount of student loans. The interest rates. Kids can’t get ahead. And during Covid, the government’s feeding us money for not working.
Kathy, why immigration?
I live in a border state. Not too long ago on the news, there was footage of a hole in the fence in the Mexico border, and literally droves of people coming through, probably dressed a little nicer than I am right now. And no one stopped them. And they were trespassing across a farmer’s land. And when he called the police and the Border Patrol, they showed up, but they didn’t do a thing. So to me, that’s tantamount to “It’s free here. Come on over. We’ll give you food stamps. We’ll give you a place to live.” And that’s got to be cutting into our economy.
Uche, you mentioned abortion rights.
I think all the issues were important. But I feel like from president to president, there’s not much of a difference, as far as how the economy goes and immigration. But the abortion issue — for some reason, the country has decided that is a super-important issue to take away. I would want someone who just lets it rest. Codify Roe v. Wade or just let it be a choice and then move on to different issues.
I want to talk about Donald Trump. When you think about Donald Trump, I’d like to know what the first word is that comes to mind.
He’s very vocal.
Jackass. I’m sorry.
Strong.
Pompous.
Not a politician.
Funny.
Reckless.
Joke.
Confident.
Obnoxious.
Inappropriate.
Rina, you said “strong.” Tell me why and how your views of Donald Trump have changed or not changed since the last election.
My views have not changed from the last election. If anything, I’m discouraged, and I’m actually scared of the climate and people — families, friends — just oozing hatred to the point where I feel like it’s just overwhelming. I feel like we’re in a silent civil war, and it’s scary. It’s reeled out of control, and I want it to get back to normal.
Uche, you said “funny.”
He’s just funny. He’s a funny person. But I think my opinions of him, especially with everything that came out with the legal cases against him and how he reacts, he’s still very funny, but I don’t think he makes a good leader.
OK. Tell me why you don’t think he makes a good leader. What’s changed in the last four years?
Before, I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. But seeing more of his personality, things he’s said in private, the court proceedings, it’s just getting to be too much. It’s funny, and it’s comical, but as far as this is someone you’d want to run the nation — I don’t think so anymore.
Gaylin, you said “obnoxious.”
I think he’s a very good businessman. And I truthfully will probably vote for him again just because of that. I think really the root of what would make everybody in the country a lot more efficient would be tackling the economy. And I think he was very good, as far as that part of everything.
So my word was “inappropriate.” I have to agree with Gaylin, though. I would probably vote for him again because I do believe he’s a strong leader, a businessman. So he knows how to do what is right for our economy or to turn us in a better direction. He’s very inappropriate in his comments. But I didn’t vote for him to teach my child how to speak or how to be appropriate. That’s my job. I voted for him to run our country. So I would probably do that again.
I have to agree with Melissa there. He did good for our country. I have to accept that. But I said “joke” because I’m from Puerto Rico and when he visited Puerto Rico to bring help after Hurricane Maria, he looked like a joke to everybody. He was just throwing towel paper, toilet paper, to the people just like a basketball: “Oh, here you go.” So to me, that was disrespectful. It was a joke. It has nothing to do with how good he did his job as a president. I think our economy was amazing when he was in. The military — my husband is military, so I really appreciated that.
Kathy, you said “pompous.”
I agree with everyone else as far as him being a fantastic businessman. And we need a strong person who understands how the economy works, not a puppet that’s going to be told, “Do this” or “Do that.” I still think he is pompous, but I can’t see myself voting for anyone else. I just hope we can surround him with enough people who can buffer him. I feel our weakest link is our economic issues. It’s a root for a lot of bad feelings, a lot of fear, a lot of tension. Both my children cannot afford to buy a house right now. It’s scary.
Krys, you said “vocal.” Has anything changed for you in the last four years?
About him? No. I wanted him four years ago. I would love to have him back. The reason why I said vocal is my first thought when he even decided to run for presidency, was, “It’s about time that we got somebody that had the cojones to stand up to other countries and let them know the crap they were putting towards us wasn’t right.” He was also vocal with the military and making sure that the military got exactly what they had been deserving. My son being a Marine — there was a big difference from when the president prior and when he came in on how they were treated. Trump is pompous. I agree 100 percent with that. Unfortunately, he could be crude. And that’s why I used the word “vocal.” I pray that he brings the economy back to where he had it when he was president.
I wanted to follow up on something Uche said. I wondered if anyone else felt that President Trump, for whatever reason, lost your vote over the last four years.
I can’t say that I have decided not to vote for him, but I am very much on the fence. And it will be a very difficult decision for me. Because I agree with so many of you that have said he’s driven, he’s strong, he’s smart, he has a backbone, which are all true. But characteristics of leaders that we would want in our family and our community and our churches, such as character, integrity, humility, self-control — he is flat-out lacking severely in those. And that’s a scary place to be.
Traci, is there any memory from the last four years that really bothered you and is why you are on the fence now?
It’s just a combination of it all. The crazy stuff on Twitter that he’s doing and just being so defensive and speaking over people, and to me, that’s kind of that little-man syndrome: “I got to act like a big badass because people are picking on me.” It’s been a long time since we’ve had a president who has really led our country from a sense of humility with strength and integrity.
OK.
I don’t blame that just on the office. I blame that on our society, too.
Similar to Traci, I am on the fence. I did vote for him back in 2020. Most likely will again, just given the candidates as of now. But I think my defining moment was how he handled losing. He’s very confident. And I look for that in a president, being very confident, not willing to back down to help lead the country. However, he does need to know, to Traci’s point, how to do it with integrity. The way he handles some things, I would — if it were my children handling it the same way, we’d have a talking. So sometimes he needs to be reined in.
I wanted to ask about the legal and court cases that President Trump is facing. What would you say is the most important issue or case for you?
This ongoing issue of classified documents. It’s come to be a little kind of childish.
The Jan. 6 case.
I think just as a United States citizen, it’s always proven you’re innocent until proven guilty.
He’s being persecuted. We’re living in a banana republic. All of these cases at one time — they’ve been working supposedly on them for six years or so, so they decide all at one time to do this? It’s the only way they’re going to take him out. In the past, we have assassinated presidents. Now we’re doing it politically. This is a coordinated attack.
The way I see it, I feel like when you’re in that type of position, all your skeletons are going to come out, right? Nobody has a perfect past. All of us here are probably old enough to have seen several presidents who have done things, either in office or before they came into office, that we wouldn’t want my husband doing that or my brother or my dad. So it doesn’t take away from him being able to run our country, is the way I see it.
So for me, I would prefer somebody who is a little more well spoken and a little more family man, like President Obama. But as far as Donald Trump, I do — I think because he is in the position that he is in, like she said, his skeletons are going to come out. But even though he’s not exactly who I would want as my dad, my husband, all of this, as a leader in the position that he carries — in that, I like that he doesn’t really care about what anybody has to say or what anybody thinks and stuff. And I think, to some degree, he kind of says that himself when he talks about how he knows how to cheat the tax system. He’s kind of fighting the same battle as all of us. He’s just on a different level. I think it kind of speaks truth to the fact that at least he’s real about it and doesn’t try pretending he’s somebody else.
How would you feel if President Trump won the presidency in November and then ordered the Justice Department to end the federal cases that he faces?
Things like this happen behind closed doors many, many, many times. It’s like, “If you’re going to cheat on me, just tell me you were going to cheat on me,” right? You don’t have to lie about it. I’m sure there’s a lot of politicians that have had legal issues happen and they get swept under the rug.
Maybe the Justice Department could be doing stuff for the citizens of the United States of America than wasting time on all this stuff.
What qualities should Donald Trump look for when choosing a running mate?
Somebody like Vivek. He’s cool. He’s logical. He doesn’t lose it. He’s a businessman. He’s successful. He’s personable. What’s not to like?
I would love for him to realize he needs to find somebody that he’ll actually listen to if they say, “Hey, you’re headed in the wrong direction.”
He needs someone he can listen to. Someone with integrity that he can trust. Someone coolheaded. Someone that’s him without the Donald Trump factor.
“Him without the Donald Trump factor” — I like that description. Melissa?
I agree with everybody. I think it’s somebody that is going to help him hold back a little bit in regards to just the inappropriateness but like-minded. Somebody who can help him in running the economy. A smart businessman is what we need.
I’d love to see him have a female running mate. I’d love to see him show the entire country and the world and me that he knows how to treat a female.
OK. I want to change gears and talk about Joe Biden. If you’re thinking about Joe Biden, I want to hear what word comes to mind for you.
It sounds so mean. And I don’t like to talk mean, but I want to say “idiot.”
Weak.
Incompetent.
Incompetent.
Wishy-washy.
Confused.
Traitor.
Incompetence.
Lost.
Tired.
Gaylin, you said “incompetent.” Tell me a little bit about that.
When he speaks, he seems so lost and confused. And you don’t feel the power in his speaking the way I felt like I felt when Donald Trump addressed the nation. It’s just not as firm or direct. It’s not even like he’s reading a script. It’s more just like he’s kind of blubbering through.
OK. Teri, I know you said you didn’t want to say anything mean. There’s not really a positive spin on the word “idiot.” Tell me what makes that the word that comes to mind for you.
Trump was always confident in his speeches, very involved, fighting for his passion or very vocal, which could be good or bad, whereas Biden is very scripted. It’s basically what he’s being told to do, how he’s being told to do it. And he’s just like a little lost wanderer. I just feel that makes him look like an idiot because he’s not thinking on his own. He’s not thinking smartly.
Is there anything that he has done as president that you did like?
I think that he got rid of his German shepherd that was biting the security personnel. And that was good.
OK. Dog stories can be memorable.
If he can’t control a dog, how does he run a country?
He did delete some student loan debt. I know people who benefited from that, so that was good.
I want to step back and talk about the 2024 election. What’s one word to describe how you’re feeling about this presidential election coming up?
Afraid. I’m just afraid of what happened last time, taking days for an election. And we know what that is about.
Apprehensive. I’m skeptical and fearful, and it’s going to be close, and maybe people are going to get crazy.
Hopeful.
Nervous.
Fearful.
Fearful and nervous.
Hopeful.
Scared.
Nervous.
Over it.
Urgency.
Say more about “urgency.”
I believe that so many U.S. citizens are just tired of the way the last four years have gone. It’s going to put an urgency on many people who don’t normally go out and vote to actually vote this time.
Krys, you said “nervous.”
I’m nervous because of what happened the last time when he didn’t win. I’m nervous that he’s not going to win this year. Because I really think that we need him back. I’m nervous he’s not going to have the votes behind him.
Kathy, why “apprehensive”?
I’m not real confident in either side playing nice. Somebody has got to win, and somebody’s got to lose, but there’s going to be a lot of people that are unhappy.
I’m fearful of civil unrest, riots. Honestly, if my kids were adults, I’d be considering moving abroad.
Traci, who or what do you think would be responsible for unrest and riots?
I think it could be either side. If Trump wins, I think that there’s Biden supporters who would riot. And if Biden wins, I think there’s Trump supporters that would riot like we had on Jan. 6. And was Trump behind that? Was he aware of it? I don’t know. But either way, I think there’s so much divisiveness that it’s quite likely that we will have some civil unrest.
Do you think both Biden and Trump would approach that the same way? That they would each encourage their supporters to riot or each discourage their supporters to riot?
I don’t know. I’m hoping that they will address it now as they are campaigning. I’m hoping that they will encourage their supporters to have some sort of sportsmanship.
It sounds like a lot of you are voting for President Trump again or thinking about it. But are other people running — President Biden, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Cornel West, Jill Stein, others — who you’re considering?
Kennedy. I’m impressed with some of his qualities. If the election was today, I’d probably do Trump. But he’s someone that I’m definitely taking a look at.
What are you drawn to about Kennedy?
It sounds cliché. But knowing that his relatives did very well — it piques my interest. I just started looking into him a little bit more.
I do like some of Robert Kennedy’s policies on medical freedom. And I know he’s pretty strong on the anti-vaccine movement. One of the reasons I know a lot of people vote Republican is because Republicans typically are a little more about medical freedom in that regard. So I like some of his policies on that and actually trying to hold vaccine manufacturers accountable, whereas right now they’re not really held accountable for anything that can come from vaccine injuries.
Has that affected you personally, Gaylin?
Yeah. I had a daughter that had a hard time with her vaccines, and it’s hard to find a doctor that will just let you space them and slow them down.
I have tossed Kennedy around a bit, but I haven’t done enough research into policies.
Same. I don’t know enough about him yet to state whether I would lean in his direction.
I became aware of Kennedy, and it’s more of an emotional response to see what he’s about. But the very first issue I read was his stand on abortion. It wasn’t what I wanted to see.
Traci and Uche, is there anything that President Biden could do or say in the next six months that would persuade you to vote for him?
No.
I would say never say never. I think it would have to do with what Trump does.
I want to know: If you were in charge and you could choose anyone to run for president this year who is not running — they can be anyone — who do you choose to run?
Oprah Winfrey.
Why Oprah Winfrey?
She’s magnetic. She’s smart. She knows how to run a business. She has character. She’s not a pushover. And she’s not going to incite other countries to go to war with us.
Traci stole my idea, because I was going to say her, just because she’s a female and I think it will be so great to see a female as a president. But I also really like Kamala Harris. She would be amazing as a president.
What is it about Kamala Harris that you think would make her very good for this?
How she represents all of the females, how she speaks. You can see her presence. And just going that route of having a female president, I would love to be either Oprah, which will be my first option, or Kamala.
I was thinking Condoleezza Rice. She just carried herself well. She made sense. She was smart. I really liked her.
Yeah, and she wore pearls, so it was great.
I think women bring a different perspective. I’m not saying that the males aren’t doing a great job. But I look at Michelle Obama and Kamala Harris and their poise and how they’ve handled things with grace. I think they would do very well in representing the country. So it’d be interesting to see that perspective, especially when you’re talking about things such as women’s rights. I would love, love, love, love seeing the first female president. It would really show my girls that anything is possible.
There’s aspects that women can bring to this that men can’t. Don’t get me wrong: There are some men out there. But there’s the compassion, there’s the integrity. We have strong values. We don’t have a problem speaking our mind, but we know how to speak it without — how can I put it? — somebody jump in and help me with this word.
Compassion?
Compassionate?
Well, yeah. Yeah, we’re compassionate, but compassionate to a point where we’re not going to beat somebody down on purpose. We’re not going to throw them under the bus. Now, again, not all women are like that. But a strong woman is going to be for their country and for everybody and listen to everybody. And we, honestly, just have more common sense. And we can put two and two together without somebody having to write it down on a piece of paper and show us what we have to say. We’re built different.
OK.
It’s just really important to me that we prove it.
Women do innately have some different strengths than men do. I think having a male and a female vice president, president, whichever one is in which role — I think the combination is really good and healthy. I think it would be great for gender equality, for abortion rights. Women also probably have a stronger innate ability to defuse things verbally, whereas I see historically over the last 30 years that the men in the highest-level offices are just fighting over power and control. I worked a lot with law enforcement, and I’m retired in a different field now, but when women started becoming law enforcement officers, they changed up the game. And some of the women officers are the very best officers, because they know that their most powerful tool — of all the 30 pounds of stuff they’re carrying — is their mouth and how to talk their way through situations.
America in Focus seeks to hear and understand the views of cross-sections of Americans whose voices are often not heard in opinion journalism.
This discussion was moderated by a focus group veteran, Kristen Soltis Anderson, and the New York Times deputy Opinion editor, Patrick Healy. Ms. Soltis Anderson has done similar work over the years for Republican candidates and partisan groups. She chose the participants. (Times Opinion paid her for the work.) This transcript has been edited for length and clarity; an audio recording of the session is also included. Participants provided their biographical details. As is customary in focus groups, our role as moderators was not to argue with or fact-check the speakers, and some participants expressed opinions not rooted in facts.
Illustrations by Lucinda Rogers.
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